Our Flag Means Death Star Rhys Darby Talks Mermen And Stede's Tentative Happily Ever After [Exclusive Interview]
This post contains spoilers for "Our Flag Means Death" season 2.
"Our Flag Means Death" is unlike anything else on TV. Max's pirate rom-com is irreverent and offbeat, alternating between bloody high seas battles and tender love confessions. It's a show that sets itself apart from its contemporaries in pretty much every way, from its hilariously anachronistic, sometimes surreal take on history to its vision of a world where heterosexuality is far from the assumed default. Unsurprisingly, the show's unique humor and thoughtful portrayal of queer relationships have made it a massive word-of-mouth success.
The series gained fans (many of them creatively and joyfully obsessed) hand over fist in the weeks surrounding its first season finale. Actors involved with the show called it the most rewarding job they'd had to date, fans began cosplaying as characters at cons, and "Our Flag Means Death" ended up well on its way to becoming a pop cultural phenomenon. Yet when season 2 finally debuted, it was to silence: Cast members who had been eager to finally spill the beans about the new episodes were standing with the SAG-AFTRA strike, staying mum about all things related to the project that was made under a struck company as the AMPTP refused to come to the bargaining table.
Fans had plenty to say about season 2 (/Film mostly loved it, by the way), but until recently, the cast couldn't chime in. Now, with both the strikes and the season wrapped up, stars like Rhys Darby are finally opening up about the specifics of this surprising, heartbreaking, and uproarious new chapter. /Film was lucky enough to catch up with Darby, who told us all about his thoughts on Ed and Stede's future, his favorite season 2 costume, and the character whose story arc he loves most. We also spoke to the veteran comedian about his stand-up career, the sitcom in which he played eight different characters, and one project he worked on that now seems to be lost in the streaming ether.
Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
'He doesn't think they could ever achieve happiness'
So let's just dive right in and talk about the end of the season. When you first got that finale script, did you interpret it as a happy ending for Stede and Ed, or a whole new chapter? Do you think they'll be satisfied living as innkeepers?
It's a difficult one because it's definitely a happy ending, but it is not necessarily the ending that Stede was expecting. I don't know what he's expecting, but everything is so new to him. I feel like this character, every turn he makes is a door that he's never been into before. Not that he walks into doors ... which he does, actually. He opens the door into a room that he's not expecting. And I think that's exactly how this ends at this moment: It's a new chapter. He's with the person he loves. But what happens then? So, you know, when you think about any relationship and you think, "Right, what's our goal? Well, we'll stay together, we'll stick together, we'll get married, perhaps," and then you've got the rest of your life and so much more happens after that. So, it's open-ended, but in terms of the script for the characters, it's definitely happy.
I thought it was so interesting that there was no big conversation about Stede's change of heart when it came to giving up piracy. It seemed like it was decided with a look. What do you think led to that change of heart?
I think he's sort of lost in love at this point. He's done the ultimate version of pirating. He's become this pirate hero that he imagined he would be in his dreams when he was reading all his books. And I think he kind of achieved that. Still didn't die, miraculously, the guy who's unkillable, even though he had a few more skills in the last few episodes of season 2, thanks to Izzy. But yeah, I guess it's like that fairy tale piece where you go, "And now you live happily ever after."
But that, in reality, is never something that's in his brain, I don't think, because he doesn't think they could ever achieve happiness. So I think it's just a moment, it's a kind of breather, but I think he's expecting something to go horrifically wrong — as you would expect being pirates. And in reality, that's of course what happens, is that they have to sleep with one eye open. I mean, you know, the British are still always going to be after them. [Laughs]
'You've got to find the right balance'
Yeah, totally. I've been in fandoms for a long time, but I've never seen a fan base that's as prolific as this one, I would say, or passionate.
Yeah!
Going into season 2, how do you balance appreciating fans' insights about the character with maintaining your own performance and understanding of Stede?
I simply don't really refer to any fans' insights of the character because there's so many of them. [Laughs] They can think what they want and they can make their own narratives, but really it's up to the writers. So yeah, I don't get swayed by any interpretations from any fans. The only fans that sway me are David Jenkins and the writers.
Totally. I just imagine if it were me, I would just not be able to even go on the internet because it's like at a certain point you're like, "Oh, everyone loves this one thing I do with my hair. How do I not do that again?"
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. "Grow the beard!" Exactly. I think David definitely listens to the fans, so you've got to find the right balance of making the story you want to make, but also keep the fans happy. The worst thing you can do is certainly do something that will not make them happy, and I think you sometimes have to. It's like you're on a tightrope, but sometimes you do fall over the side and spill over, but then you can spin right back up again. And that's life. It can't be completely perfect because nobody wants that. There has to be some upsets.
Exactly.
And I think that's where we got to.
Yeah, if you did every single thing everyone wanted, it would not be an interesting second season.
Exactly, yeah.
But it was, it was great. Aside from Stede, is there a character whose arc you've especially loved so far?
Yeah, Lucius, I think is a really exciting arc because this is a little boy who ended up on this ship, God knows how, was completely overwhelmed by everything that was going on, was not really capable of doing anything apart from reading and writing, being a scribe. And then went through the absolute hell of piracy and came out the other side not only finding love, but also just being so much braver and so much more confident in his own skin. Through a bit of trauma, but that's life, and he just became — I mean, you look at the first couple of episodes of his character and then look at what happened in season 2, by the end, and that's one hell of an arc.
'I've always wanted to be a merman'
Switching gears a little bit, I've been lucky enough to see your anniversary stand-up twice. I saw it early on in L.A. and I actually just saw it in Glasgow a couple of weeks ago.
Oh, awesome.
I was curious when I was watching: When something funny happens to you, like on set or somewhere like that, do you immediately think, "Oh, that's going to go in the special?" Or is it a slower process putting those together?
Yeah, I mean, unless I write something down immediately, I instantly forget. But I do tend to write down a lot of things. I also have friends around me that remind me "you should do that bit in your stand-up" or whatever, because I very much live in the moment. That's why I'm great at improvising because I could just come up with things, but the downside of that is I also forget things really quickly. So it's a matter of definitely getting things down. I think that's one of the reasons I like doing TV, because I can look at what I've done, and with stand-up it's so instantaneous, unless you record your specials and things. But yeah, it's definitely a longer process, but the key to it is writing down and writing down the notes that make sense and then going, "Oh, that's right. That was brilliant, that idea." And then you evolve it into a story.
Yeah, that makes sense. Were there any deleted scenes or outtakes you filmed for this season of "Our Flag Means Death" that you wish got in?
There's always stuff that we filmed that we wished got in, but unfortunately because it was so long ago, nothing comes to mind right now.
I was going to say, I shouldn't have asked that right after you said you can't remember.
[Laughs] But look, I still have a whole bunch of videos that I need to put up that are behind the scenes stuff that I made that I just haven't got round to doing yet. So there will be a whole lot more stuff for the fans, of me in various outfits jumping around.
I actually was going to ask, since you had the mermaid tail, you had the cursed jacket, did you have a favorite costume that you got to wear this season?
Yeah, definitely the cursed outfit, because I missed Stede's outfits from season 1. I loved dressing up. Even though it was the more romantic kind of hefty, cool Stede in season 2, as he became this proper pirate, I missed the dainty, cool outfits. So finally getting that one — and you can see the amount of times I spun around and looked in the mirror and things — I did enjoy that.
Now, the mermaid, of course, I also equally enjoyed because being into cryptids, I've always wanted to be a merman, at least for half an hour. I think it was probably two hours I did that for and I proved to myself that I can swim like a mermaid. So yeah, it was definitely a special day.
'You're not looking at your friend'
It looked difficult for sure. You have so many intense scenes with Taika. How do the two of you prepare for getting into those big moments and transitioning from real-life friends to onscreen exes or lovers?
It's all in the costuming. Once you get that gear on and you look at each other, you're not looking at your friend. For me, I'm looking at Blackbeard and it's the beard and it's the whatever he's got on and we transform. Basically, once you're doing that, you are emotionally attached to the character that you are talking to. So yeah, it was pretty easy. And it's easy because we actually do like each other in real life. We're obviously really good friends, so it's not a task and a half to grab each other and give each other a hug and stuff.
That makes sense. I was so excited to see that season 2 would be shot in New Zealand. How did that location change impact the process of bringing it all to life?
It was a shock, but a very pleasant shock for most of us, especially those who are from New Zealand, because I could just go home. I think the process became more beautiful, because we used the scenery. We also had all the great set builders, set designers, and workers and general crew in New Zealand that we all know and love. Those of us that have worked with them before, we know how hard they work. Seeing what they put together, completely rebuilding, recreating the Republic of Pirates through all weather — because it was winter as well when they were building it for six weeks, and I turned up and they've done this amazing detailed work. It was like, "Oh, this is way better." Because in season 1, we actually had to go to various little locations to try and find these kind of places. That and being comforted by the New Zealand people, just I think, made it really wonderful and special for everyone.
'Life is becoming more erasable, and that's quite scary'
I feel like it came through on screen as well. It's definitely noticeable. One last question, it might be a tough one. Since this fandom has hit so big, fans have been discovering past projects of yours from "Flight of the Conchords" to "Short Poppies," which I would say is more of a hidden gem in America. What's one thing you've worked on before that you would love to see have a little mini-resurgence?
I mean, that's a good question. I loved making "Short Poppies" because I created that myself, and I love playing various characters, and it would be super cool to see that come about again, maybe do a different version of it or see the characters 15 years later. I was going to make one where it was 10 years later, but that was five years ago. [Laughs] Every time I say this, it's like, "Make a new version of them 20 years later!" But yeah, apart from that, always love working with Bret and Jemaine. Gosh, I've done so many projects, I can't think of any more.
I just love the fact that people have gone back and seen my stuff, found my stuff, and have appreciated what I've been up to the whole time. Because as you say, "hidden gems." I always called myself King of the Underground because I was doing great stuff. No one was even seeing it, I felt it was really special. And now, finally being involved in something that opens up the floodgates of all my past work and people now with the internet and their crazy detective skills can find stuff that's still actually living. One of the things that upset me is something like "Wrecked," which I made three seasons of, and that I don't think you can even find anymore because it was taken right off as a tax write off. Well, I don't know that for sure, but it's gone.
It's gone. Yeah. I think when the show was new, I was trying to watch it and I found one season, but not the others somehow.
Yeah, we bought one season on Apple, so this is why I think DVDs are going to come back. I would love to put some of that stuff out on DVD, just because life is becoming more erasable, and that's quite scary.
All episodes of "Our Flag Means Death" seasons 1 and 2 are now streaming on Max.